Friends, Family & Carers Forum

[Former-Member]

Hi @Former-Member

Yes, detained for very serious complex mental illness - drug abuse isn't tolerated I believe in these group homes (they would have to go into rehab). When my daughter was very bad our GP was telling us about these type of group homes. It's for those who are placed there through a court order (there is a legal name for it that I cannot recall right now), that a doctor can make happen/apply for those suffering complex mental illness I was lead to believe. For years through our struggles with our daughter this was the first I had heard about it. I am not sure how many there are or if they are nation wide (I am in NSW). 

 I don't know much more about it as we never followed through with it as our daughter improved. I will ask my GP again for you when I see him next Monday and will let you know more. Its certainly not common knowledge and we could not understand why no one, not even the mental health team, told us of this years ago. Our daughter has since improved out of sight since she has stop taking weed and illicit drugs and is currently doing well on a mood stabiliser. She stopped substance abuse after she hit rock bottom having a major scarce with her health as a direct result of drug use. She is working full time now. Fingers crossed she stays on the straight and narrow. She did start seeing things (hallucinating), but this has now improved.

I hope any information I find can help you with your son my friend. He should of been given public housing in his situation. The system let your son down there my friend. So many sufferers of complex MI flee through fear of being hospitalised. I can understand that as when my daughter was committed it was not much different to being in jail in the public system - private is much better but it's not where they would accommodate your son unfortunately. I will get back to you when I find out more. xx 

[Former-Member]

@Former-Member - it's called " a community treatment order" under section 51 of the NSW Mental health Act 2007.  A medical practioner or caregiver can apply for it - in your case it would be a medical professional who would have to do it. It is then enforced by a magistrate. One of the conditions of the order is that the sufferer has refused proper treatment in the past and is at risk of severe mental deterioration as a result. May be worth looking into.

[Former-Member]

hello @Former-Member

My son has not been to court and any doctor would state that he is an adult and needs to accept that he is unwell and agree to take medication. They will not force him unless he is detained. They will not detain him unless he is at risk to himself to others.

He was in private health care and I enquired to have him transferred which is what he asked me to do for him. A second opinion on his diagnosis was obtained from a private practice psychiatrist who told me that it would be a waste of time transferring him to a private hospital. He would just discharge himself, not continue with therapy or medication because he does not believe he is ill.

As hard as it is he has to become unwell enough to realise that he is unwell and then seek treatment. That is when we can help him more, if he stays on medication. From what I have read the medication is worse than the symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia. So it is just a time bomb waiting to explode.

Thanks for wanting to help though.

I haven't heard from him in over 2 weeks now. Hoping that means all is well. I have just sent him another message and have to wait to see if he replies.

Good that your daughter has sorted things out.

[Former-Member]

Hi @Former-Member

What We were informed by my daughter's medical practitioner is that when someone is suffering "severe" mental illness, which paranoid schizophrenia falls under, and refuses medication to the point they detoriate mentally and physically "they are deemed "a risk to themselves".  A medical practioner whose care the mentally ill patient is under whom witnesses this deterioration may be obliged professionally to apply for this order in the above circumstances (e.g. As they could die or deterioate greatly if missing a injection of medication ); and/or a caregiver who witnesses this can apply also for a community order. Also when the sufferer is displaying aggression towards others in the form of physical, verbal or text threats - this can be deemed a risk to others.

Many whom suffer complex mental health issues lose sight of their mental illness and deterioration- that's when it is appropriate for others step in to help them to receive proper treatment.

The magistrate assesses the sufferers mental state and all the above and makes the decision whether they need this order enforced or not.  Its aim is to keep the sufferer and others safe. Indeed if your son does not fit this criteria and is taking medication he would not fall under this category. Our daughter was fitting into this criteria once and this information of having other options to protect her and us, was a lifesaver.

[Former-Member]

I understand where you are coming from @Former-Member

it is vital information and might be helpful for @oscarc @Exhausted1

I can't see my son....he wont let me know where he is

I dont believe that he even sees a doctor,,,he probably wouldnt trust them..no one is witnessing his decline

the public hospital where he was detained had his records.. they would have given the information  to his mental health team who did not help my son at all. they failed him miserably.

I have spoken to the psychiatric section of the hospital and they say it is up to him

I cant do a single thing other than respond as best as I can when he sends me a message

[Former-Member]

@Former-Member @Former-Member
There are different rules in different states in relation to assessment and treatment orders and is covered by their own mental health acts. In some states there is no need to appear before a magistrate - it is all taken care of by a mental health tribunal.

[Former-Member]

thank you both @Former-Member @Former-Member

If I ever find out where he is this will be useful

I am really struggling that I cannot do anything for him

even if I go looking for him, how I dont know. I only know the state he is in that is all.

He will be so frightened that he has been found without telling me where he is. He will lose his trust in me also. I can't do that to him. I have to wait for him to trust me enough that I ask if I can visit him he will then let me and tell me where he is.

[Former-Member]

Thank you @Former-Member - The community order I was referring to here comes under section 51 of the Mental Health Act 2007 of the State of NSW as previously mentioned. I am not sure what happens in other states.

Hi @Former-Member

I sympathise with you as we had similar trouble for years with our daughter. She would not seek help so at one stage there was no medical doctor that was witnessing her decline. It was up to us and the mental health team were of no help to us really and let her down too and said much the same to us as what was told to you. When we rang them whilst she was self harming they said to us "we cannot help her unless she wants help". To which I stated "I thought the law incorporated scheduling when they are a danger to themselves?". To which they argued with me while my daughter was slipping into unconscious. We rang an ambulance.

They were in the wrong @Former-Member and they rang back because of legal reasons to apologise. I would never take as gospel what the mental health team or nurses say but if you wanted to know what your options where in your State talk to a private medical professional chosen by you who is experienced in this field and your situation, as well as gain free legal advice to know all your options with detained care etc in your State. That way you have all the facts and other options to utilise if you should ever need such help with your son in an emergency.

Our daughter was living with us so our situation was different to yours.  It is so very hard when your son is so far away and you don't know where he is or the situation. I hear you. You can only do your best and know your options if you should ever need them in a emergency. I truly do hope that your situation comes to a happy ending. Don't give up. And I sincerely hope our daughter doesn't slip backwards as I don't believe I could go through it all again. Hugs xx

[Jasminej]

@oscarc I really feel your pain and just hope that your situation gets better. Is there a way for you or them to move closer to each other? Most of what I can advise has been written here already. I do want to say however that for me, there was a time where I was getting utterly depressed just by thinking about how I could help my bro with schizophrenia. Eventually I realised that I needed to look after myself first, and then I try to support bro and parents. Accepting that I can't control things and essentially can't get people to behave or think like I do despite it seeming the most logical way was a really big thing for maintaining my own mental health. It's the only way I can guide/attempt to influence those I care for.